Talk:Queen of the Night

Is Queen of the Night a bruxa?
TW1 surely uses the model of a bruxa for her, but may be it's because the game simply doesn't have models for other types of high vampires. According to her words, she was the one that Regis mentioned in the books (that they separated because of his drinking). So assuming it's not clearly known what kind of high vampire Regis was, I'd say it's not very clear about the Queen of the Night either. -- Gilrond (talk) 01:04, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Given that for all other characters in the game we rely on the model for what "race" they are, i see no reason to make an exception for the Queen of the Night. — Game widow (talk) 11:10, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thinking about it, we can actually deduce she is higher vampire proper from the context. Regis in the books mentions, that his ex broke up with him due to his addiction to blood. TW1 implies that was Queen of the Night. That's something a higher vampire would do, since as Regis himself explained, higher vampires look down on blood addition (akin to alcoholism). Bruxae on the other hand need blood for sustenance so they wouldn't have that attitude and wouldn't fit that context for Queen of the Night. SMiki5five: any thoughts? — Gilrond (talk) 07:57, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, the Queen of the Night can be killed, so according to the CDPR lore, she's not a higher vampire. Hubert Rejk and Orianna were originally higher vampire before being retconned by CDPR, so...--— Gwynbleidds (talk) 14:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That could be non permanent, i.e. like in case of Vilgefortz and Regis. So just the fact that Geralt can defeat her is not conclusive. About Hubert Rejk, I agree. Something is messed up about his story. About Orianna however, developers confirmed they meant her as a higher vampire. Why otherwise she would have the access to Unseen Elder? — Gilrond (talk) 15:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Regis dies during his confrontation with Vilgefortz as mentioned by Sapkowski : Względem Regisa, przyznaję, było trudniej, i wersje, w których wampir przeżywa, istniały. Zrezygnowałem z nich jednak – tym niemniej nie tylko za chybione, ale za wręcz krzywdzące uważam posądzanie mnie o, jak Pan pisze, „znudzenie się bohaterem” czy „pozbywanie się nadmiaru”. Wampir ginie, bo poświęca się – ratuje Geralta i Yennefer – by go zabić, Vilgefortz musi poważnie „wystrzelać się” z czarnoksięskiej mocy. (Source : Nieustający Wywiad Zony) And Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz later admitted that Orianna is indeed a bruxa: They were also classified as higher vampires in TW2, that's why I considered it confirmed. Although it was probably also caused by the mistake you pointed out. In that case, since Geralt killed her in the trailer, you're right that it's better to classify her as a bruxa.)--— Gwynbleidds (talk) 15:19, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, sure. I think the whole idea of only higher vampires being able to kill higher vampires comes from CDPR, not from Sapkowski. But once they stick to that rule, we need to resolve various inconsistencies in their own stories, rather than bring Sapkowski in with direct negation of that very rule they came up with. And these inconsistencies are like you brought above, some mix among developers with this whole bruxa vs higher vampire thing. I'd say, the most optimal way to reduce inconsistencies (even if not fully resolve all of them) is to explain that Queen of the Night and Orianna are real higher vampires in CDPR terms and not bruxae. So the minimal mix up will remain in the claims that they are bruxae, rather than in the part that fits higher vampire logic in the actual stories, like disdain to blood addiction and access to Unseen Elder. — Gilrond (talk) 15:45, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

It was you, Gilrond, who started mentioning the novels (thus Sapkowski) to confirm that Orianna is a higher vampire. So I don't mind quoting these same novels to show where one of the inconsistencies really comes from. Because it's that inconsistency that's the problem... Whatever it is, Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz confirms that Orianna is a bruxa. You can ask the same question to Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz for the Queen of the Night, and that will also solve the question. Many other inconsistencies exist in the CDPR license so it won't change much. And all probably come from Wikia as developers use it to write their games ...--— Gwynbleidds (talk) 16:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Same Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz explicitly said that Orianna is a higher vampire. I don't see a reason to take the approach of bruxa in this case, since no matter what you take, there will be something inconsistent remaining. What I meant is to find an explanation that minimizes inconsistencies. You won't be able to completely avoid them in either way, due to developers messing things up. Regarding bringing the books. It's one thing to bring the actual book source and another to bring Sapkowski's quote about it. I.e. CDPR built continuity with the books, less so with Sapkowski's own interpretation he presents outside the books. That's why I said to attempt to resolve things within CDPR's taken approach + using books, rather than to resolve all things combined even with quotes like you brought. That's just impossible. IMHO saying Queen of the Night and Orianna are higher vampires proper minimizes inconsistencies in the best way. — Gilrond (talk) 16:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no interpretation of Regis' death in Stygga. That's why whoever asks Sapkowski is complaining. But if you want, just a quote from the novels, I refer you to the part where Regis tells his story. The same passage where, according to you, he talks about the Queen of the Night. Regis mentions that they pierced him with stakes, cut off his head, sprinkled him with holy water and finally buried him. He never mentions that he died because, according to him, they didn't know how to go about it. So the explanation that only a higher vampire can kill one of their own is bullshit...--— Gwynbleidds (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't claim that such explanation is the best fit overall (i.e. that higher vampires only can kill higher vampires), but they picked it as part of the story already. While using bruxa logic isn't really part of the story in this sense, so it can be disregarded to reduce inconsistencies. — Gilrond (talk) 17:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to say. I've given you all the information I had on the subject, but in the end it's up to you. I'm in charge of the French wiki, so I'm certainly not going to tell you how you handle this one. For my part, I always choose the canonical version. Then I separate all the adaptations, I never mix them.--— Gwynbleidds (talk) 17:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)